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Revisionist History - Phelan Curing Ost Venom

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Warren (Warren, *)
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Posted: 2015-11-12 8:16:25 pm Category General Viewed 299 times Likes 0

As many of you know online Gor is a rather murky place at best. Normally this just serves to annoy me to a slight degree, long ago having got over the disappointment when I had come to that realization. But, today, I was surprised to see that online Gor had sunk to yet another new low. I actually thought it couldn't get any lower. Well, live and learn.

Today I got to see a freeman, by the name of Agrit, make a bald face lie regarding Phelan curing ost venom, despite the fact that a scroll had been provided making it clear that he had done so. This action was supported by using only part of the scroll provided, of course omitting the section that made the situation clear, and then only evaluated that which he cherry picked. This allowed him to make an evaluation out of context, which enabled him to prevent a revised version of the event to support his conclusion

I will present, again, part of the scroll posted. I, however, will not "forget" to include that which gave the situation context.

______________________________
alli-cat-CoF-ys reaches out and and carefully and slowly starts to slide the jeweled straight pin into danicas white silks her hands trembling badly as she tries not to hurt the girl 
 
danica-Phelan-CoF-ws looking down at the lovely pin, tears spill over and gently caress the pale skin of her cheeks. looking back to her sister, she hops off her Master's lap and takes her in a tight embrace then kisses her cheek whispering
 
danica-Phelan-CoF-ws : thank you sister, it means more to me than you can imagine. you are such a wonderful and beautiful sister, thank you, thank you so much
 
alli-cat-CoF-ys takes another deep breath to steady nerves and tries to quickly get the jeweled pin thats tipped through her hand trebles and it slips and scratches danica just barely but makes it through the fabric
 
danica-Phelan-CoF-ws oops, got ahead of myself
 
danica-Phelan-CoF-ws ahem - please see my response above *giggles*
 
Phelan-CoF-Phy-Adm reaches into his pocket pulling out several ring that are used for piercing other parts of the body and looks to the three girls
 
Phelan-CoF-Phy-Adm let me see he thinks as he looks them over
 
şāđįqũā~ÄŒôF~Ŗřş peeks to Master
 
alli-cat-CoF-ys blinks as she suddenly realizes that was the wrong pin that that one was tipped in ost poison she turns pale and backs away slowly
 
danica-Phelan-CoF-ws : hmmm, not sure what to do about ost poison 
 
danica-Phelan-CoF-ws : any advice?
 
Phelan-CoF-Phy-Adm reahes into his bag pulling out the salve of the PKs
 
Phelan-CoF-Phy-Adm then an antidote he has been working on
 
alli-cat-CoF-ys : ugh let see um right theres gots to be a antidote around here somewhere
 
şāđįqũā~ÄŒôF~Ŗřş watches Master 
 
Phelan-CoF-Phy-Adm reaches down gently appling the antidote
______________________________
 
To ensure crystal clarity, I will repost the post that establishes the context:
 
alli-cat-CoF-ys blinks as she suddenly realizes that was the wrong pin that that one was tipped in ost poison she turns pale and backs away slowly
 
That that pin was tipped in ost venom is beyond dispute. There was no subsequent post that said anything to the contrary. Phelan provided a cure regardless. It is irrelevant that Phelan himself didn't say anything about ost venom. That it was ost venom had already been established. With ost venom a scratch is enough.
 
I know, Agrit, that you wish this issue would go away. Making outright lies about it, that can be so easily shown to be such, is not going to accomplish that. You simply managed to accomplish diminishing your own character by the attempt.
 
Perhaps you can reestablish some by removing your false claim and admitting the error of it.
 

I wish you all well.


Comments

58 Comments
2015-11-12 9:44:19 pm
So does this mean we all have countless mulligans for whatever happens that we don't like? No matter how it's played or acknowledged?
2015-11-12 10:53:49 pm
No what it means is some people just have to put their two cents worth in to defend their buddies "honor" even if to do so is clearly wrong instead of simply admitting the truth and telling their "friend" " ok pal you screwed up, this ones on you"....where's that "Gorean accountability" now?....I seem to recall Manon using the phrase "conveniently discarded" once when referring to My own principles I suggest that happens to "all Goreans, great and not" to borrow a phrase.
2015-11-12 11:18:45 pm
I find it laughable that the Physicians we DO have are hardly ever found in roleplay and yet so many applicants to the caste who actually DO show up in roleplay are refused training. Frankly Im surprised noone has yet cried and pointed out that "Fina is a safe zone and nothing bad can ever happen in a magical safe zone"....
2015-11-12 11:24:36 pm
In my opinion each city should be responsible for training their own castes.
2015-11-12 11:26:08 pm
Do you mean I cannot claim the caste of scribes unless the grand Pooba scribe says I can?
2015-11-12 11:35:08 pm
As far as I know each City controls its own castes. There's no grand poobas who need to approve anything anyone else does. Why should there be? Here we have an example of a trained Physician with decades of experience clearly violating the books...so gosh golly gee, I can't imagine anyone having anything legitimate to say about what others do that needs to be approved first, but thanks for asking the question Lady Scribe.
2015-11-12 11:44:03 pm
There is no grande Pooba scribe, just like there's no grand Pooba warrior. You find someone who is of that caste and ask them to train you. If they will, and you stick with it, Eventually, BOOM...Scribe. Physicians have always been the accept ion to the rule. This has always been something that the high castes have been more concerned with than the low. Who really cares how long it took a lamplighter to get it just right?
2015-11-12 11:47:40 pm
Why would the Physicians caste be an exception to the rule? Are Physicians also then exempt from the Law?
2015-11-12 11:51:01 pm
Maybe they are better organized than the other castes? I don't know. It's been this way for as long as I can remember.
2015-11-12 11:55:00 pm
It is precisely instances such as the one depicted in the scroll that efforts were made to unify certain Castes in the first place. It meant enough to certain members of the Physicians Caste that their craft not be made a mockery of by an uneducated few, that they formed a sort of "guild" type operation for the sake of consistency, that those of us who may need such an individual get proper care, regardless of the outcome.
2015-11-12 11:55:32 pm
"It is little wonder then that the cities of Gor support and welcome the fairs. Sometimes they provide a common ground on which territorial and commercial disputes may be amicably resolved without loss of honor, plenipotentiaries of warring cities having apparently met by accident among the silken pavilions. Further, members of castes such as Physicians and Builders use the fairs for the dissemination of information and techniques among Caste Brothers, as is prescribed in their codes in spite of
2015-11-12 11:55:57 pm
their codes in spite of the fact that their respective cities may be hostile. And as might be expected members of the Caste of Scribes gather here to enter into dispute and examine and trade manuscripts." Priest-Kings of Gor"page 9
2015-11-12 11:58:05 pm
Also, there's that. So the idea of conference and the sharing of information to provide consistency isn't so foreign after all. But since there isn't a sardar fair for this community, things had to be handled in a slightly less passive fashion. Think Field of Dreams for gorean medical professionals.
2015-11-13 12:04:06 am
I would hardly refer to it medical professionalism. I'm just a scruffy pirate and even I know ost poison is fatal and I have no medical training whatsoever. This entire episode serves only to raise the question "is training truly valid? How does a qualified Physician with decades of practice behind him make such a mistake? Was this simply because of the value he placed on the slave versus his value of common knowledge?"....Malpractice I say.
2015-11-13 12:11:58 am
No one is disputing the magnitude of this fubar. The question was why physicians have a "grand pooba" review the misdoings of greens. The ground work was laid out in the books and simply had to be adapted to a "council" in this little slice of what could loosely be described as gorean roleplay. There simply aren't enough physicians, cities, or people to fill a role in either to justify not having some kind of governing body. There weren't judges for combat in the books. Part of making the game.
2015-11-13 12:13:07 am
One should keep in mind that the difference in medium from preset books to interactive online ineveitably results in some difference between the two. What works well in one environment may not in another, so may well need replacement by something more suited.
2015-11-13 12:14:01 am
It turns out that ost venom is not entirely always fatal according to one of the later books. -- "It is the smallest, and deadliest, snake on Gor," he said. "It moves quickly, and can hide almost anywhere. Its bite is lethal, unless the limb can be cut off within a few Ihn. It is an unpleasant death. It ensues within a few Ehn. The victim commonly cries out with joy, to die, rejoicing that the pain will end. Smugglers of Gor, Book 32, Page 544
2015-11-13 12:14:17 am
If an experienced Physician can disregard all published information relating to ost bite then of what real value is training when clearly ethics were violated ? My point being if even the oldest and *coughs* "most honorable and highly trained" among us choose to lay aside ethics for personal interests then how is required training justifiable ? Is it not better to entrust an honest slave with our health than a Free man who seeks to have his own way through dishonesty ?
2015-11-13 12:17:57 am
Let's not go pretending that Phelan qualifies as anything approaching "most honorable" or even "highly trained" in matters of gorean roleplay. It has been a long, long time since that name was synonymous with much more than a manchild bending and breaking what rules float his whimsy in the confines of Fina, and anywhere else he held residence. And while an ost bite may not necessarily be "instant death" , it does read there that the offending limb must be removed within a few seconds.
2015-11-13 12:23:30 am
One could ask since one physician improperly prescribed pain killers to numerous patients, why does the medical profession still exist. Just because one judge accepted a bribe to scew the result of a trial, why does the legal profession still exist? Just because one member of a profession fails in his duty does not mean the profession is scrapped. The same holds for an online caste, espeically one with so much work devoted to it.
2015-11-13 12:23:36 am
I'm just a pirate, a Free man and dishonest as hell, but I do try to follow the books, albeit My interpretations of what a passage means does not always agree with what others interpretation of it means. I freely admit My opinions are not widely accepted but they do run as close as possible to what I believe the books are expressing. I do not try to get My own way by "cheating the books".
2015-11-13 12:28:58 am
Once upon a time there was a warriors guild in Gor for this community back when it was based mostly in MSN/GCN. One of the functions of that group was to, by way of a three tier system, determine who was, and wasn't qualified to be called on as judge for certain conflicts. Only first tier and second tier judges could judge a death match, third tier judges could only judge honor matches, or 777 attempts. The point is the game needs what it needs sometimes.
2015-11-13 12:30:44 am
Im not saying scrap the caste system, all I'm saying is I don't think it is right to say to an FW who wishes to be a Physician that She cannot roleplay one simply because noone agreed to train Her. I think if She can study the known information on Gorean Medicine and can roleplay it successfully then She should be allowed to try without the need for " official and approved training" by some self professed Pooba.
2015-11-13 12:41:22 am
You may not think it right, but such is the system that was put in place. I imagine it required a great deal of cooperation by the many homes of that time to do so. Perhaps the cooperation of the few homes that remain could be manged to replace it with a superior system.
2015-11-13 12:43:48 am
Cooperation among the Homes ? on Buzzen ?.......Are You smoking kanda leaves?
2015-11-13 12:45:34 am
It is precisely that line of thinking that served to reduce the standards of what passes for gor in this community, Grym. I remember what it was like before the physicians guild. And it sucked. One physician might tell you a wound is fatal, while another tells you it's just a fleshwound, and you'll be fine!. One says it needs to be cauterized, the other says just wrap it up in a cloth, the bleeding with stop on it's own! Believe me when I say the guild has done much more good than bad in our gor
2015-11-13 12:50:49 am
That I do not disagree with at all.....My point is we don't have Phys in RP and I see no reason we shouldnt allow some people to take up the roles, they cannot possibly do any worse than what Ive seen so far. Even an unlearned practioner is better than none at all.
2015-11-13 12:58:08 am
You would think that, until someone ends up dead because of a physician who says that a short sword severed the entire right side(from spine to ribs) of a man's torso from a frontal thrust. Now whether someone would die from a thrust to the torso with a short sword isn't really the point, You think it can't get worse, and maybe in this isolated case it can't, but big picture, and in the overall consistency of the caste, things can go to hell in a handbasket faster than you can say "yo MTV raps".
2015-11-13 1:02:14 am
That, Grym, was exactly my point. There isn't the level of coopration required in Buzzen Gor to select the contents of a sandwhich, nevermind design a replacement for the system in place. If the system is to retain the consitency that is has somebody has to be in place ensure it. Perhaps, the place to start is to determine why there are no Phyicians in role-play. Is there a lack of interest... or is there some sort of blockage preventing their arrival. If the latter, perhaps it needs clearing.
2015-11-13 1:33:48 am
I will also add in the regards to the "Physicians we have not being in r/p" part of the discussion. In fact there were a few instances of One being in IM, and asked, BEGGED, to come into r/p to deal with injuries. He then asked what the injuries were specifically, when told said,, naw, you deal with it and just send Me the scrolls (said to a SLAVE no less). Once the scrolls were recieved, and read over, they were not only approved of, but in fact complimented by said Physician.
2015-11-13 1:38:37 am
The point is, the aftermath of the poisoning and the handing out of punishments withing 48 hours of the incident, ost poison was stated as the cause of the injury, It was CLEARLY stated by phelan. danica was told HOW to react to it during the initial poisoning BY HIM. The scroll was posted, because alli was TOLD to post it. And in the end, contrary to what Cos says, it proves the facts. And proves, once more, WHO the liars and manipulators are in all this. Warren, tY for taking a stand.
2015-11-13 2:19:54 am
As it turned out the posting of the scroll by your command proved to be unexpectedly illuminating to me in a manner I did not expect. Old news can indeed provide new information.
2015-11-13 2:32:48 am
Yes it can. I knew the scroll was out there and I knew where. I asked it be held until it was time, that it was pointless to hold any longer. And then I told her to post it. she had it from the day it happened. Old news is generally, the truest news. And I thank You, for reading it all, and for not seeing the twist and lie presented by others.
2015-11-13 8:59:26 am
This incident brings another question to mind and I mean no offense to anyone beforehand. Did save scrolls of actually dipping the pin in the poison or did she simply say opppps I did this without role-playing out. If that is the case then a person disguised as a baker could come along and serve tainted bread and wipe out a city on a whim. The person or persons being targeted should at least get a chance to attempt to save their character which is what the physician tried to do.
2015-11-13 9:01:49 am
I think this whole scenario was flawed from the beginning, but raises a lot of questions about role play standards.
2015-11-13 10:01:49 am
People here have enough bad ideas, Zahrah. Don't give them anymore.
2015-11-13 10:36:21 am
Do you understand my point though???
2015-11-13 10:53:13 am
Sure.
2015-11-13 10:55:19 am
I don't know why a slave would have access to ost poison or anything like that. Of course, in some places slaves are probably council members and help make decisions for the cities of which they belong.
2015-11-13 10:57:43 am
Say that isn't so Thierry.
2015-11-13 11:00:45 am
Just about every scenario would be flawed if one had to role-play each step of the process in detail, and if it were to be the standard just how far back would these steps need to be traced. The whole ost venomed pins thing is questionable anyway, really.
2015-11-13 11:03:47 am
As in: I think I shall protect my safety by precisely placing on my person a mulititude of pins tipped with a venom that will slay anyone with the slightest exposure in moments. What could possibly go wrong? Oops! *thud*
2015-11-13 11:05:38 am
It's Buzzen. Anything is possible.
2015-11-13 11:07:10 am
Most people would have a plan and carry each step through. There is usually some sort of premeditation involved. What happens if disgruntled person x goes running through scratching people with ost tipped pins? Is this going to be accepted?
2015-11-13 11:08:16 am
Well, if a free woman did the ost venom pin thing, and had a slave place the pins for her, it probably wouldn't be the most difficult thing to sneak one away. That would probably be best to have role-played out though.
2015-11-13 11:12:30 am
" What happens if disgruntled person x goes running through scratching people with ost tipped pins? Is this going to be accepted? "...... How are we all still discussing this? Didn't You people see where I posted detonating the all powerful Kurii planet killer? Gor's dead and gone, blown to dust.....or, did we not all agree to the rash actions of one extremist in a solitary isolated incident ?.....waaah waaah You people don't plaaaaaaay faaaaaaaaair !! snivel snivel cry cry.....
2015-11-13 11:17:39 am
I dismissed your destruction of the planet as the obtaining of the materials for the making of the planet killer was not role-played out in exhaustive detail.
2015-11-13 11:32:24 am
The thing is, ost venom is one of those things that works great in the completely controlled medium of the books but is junk online. It is way too much of an easy button to work well in situations of spontaneous role-play. Due to that it would have been good for standards for the role-play of it to have been established when it was still possible for standards for online Gor role-play to be made. Sadly, that window of opportunity has been long closed.
2015-11-13 11:50:10 am
" Sadly, that window of opportunity has been long closed. "......We all have computers so we all know what to do when Windows close without reason...REBOOT!......So then with all the folks actively commenting on blogs we clearly have a concerned following of Goreans who care about the future of Gor....The question now becomes " HOW fellow Goreans, do we collectively reboot Gor ?"
2015-11-13 11:55:59 am
Kick out the weakest links.
2015-11-13 12:08:28 pm
Thats where all these dozens of two member homes come from, people can be ostracized but not banished from Gor. Reality wont allow it, anyone with a computer can simply go start their own Home.
2015-11-13 12:37:02 pm
Hell, Judas even started getting along better with people. Of course no one is going to mess around with him and cause trouble. Peace through intimidation.
2015-11-13 12:38:54 pm
Island ? I don't have an island ! I will have You know I preach the gospel and pronounce My Judgments from atop a shipping crate resting upon the deck of My ship, thank You very much.......
2015-11-13 12:39:12 pm
True. I guess there already is a council of 1 maybe 2 people who wants to run all of Gor for everyone. Problem solved.
2015-11-13 12:56:12 pm
LOL @ Grym, nice! and for the record, Thiery? I did mess with Judas once, I went off on Him, because I was led to believe something that in the end was false,, funny how I did also face Him, state clearly I was in the wrong, apologize, and said I accepted whatever consequence He would have as a result of things. See that is what being an adult is, maybe We make mistakes, but SOME of Us at least admit to them, and try to make it right. and since Judas and I have had no issue
2015-11-13 12:57:23 pm
apologies, Theiry* sorry typo there
2015-11-13 12:57:40 pm
well hell I give up and will put My glasses on now!
2015-11-13 2:30:12 pm
I intend to keep this Gor related blog at a higher standard that what I normally see here. If you wish to participate herein keep your posts cilvil and reasonably on target. If you wish to mock others you all have blog space of your own to do it in.

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